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An lawyer for erstwhile President Donald Trump successful the statesmanlike immunity proceeding clashed with Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan implicit a hypothetical question connected whether a president who "ordered" a "coup" could beryllium prosecuted.
"If it's an authoritative act, determination needs to beryllium impeachment and condemnation beforehand," Trump's lawyer John Sauer argued Thursday earlier the Supreme Court, which is being broadcast publically via audio only.
Sauer's connection was successful effect to Justice Elena Kagan's hypothetical question, asking if a president who is nary longer successful bureau directing the subject to signifier a coup would represent an "official act."
"He's nary longer president. He wasn't impeached. He couldn't beryllium impeached. But helium ordered the subject to signifier a coup. And you're saying that's an authoritative act?," Kagan asked.
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Justices of the US Supreme Court airs for their authoritative photograph astatine the Supreme Court successful Washington, DC connected October 7, 2022. - (Seated from left) Associate Justice Sonia Sotomayor, Associate Justice Clarence Thomas, Chief Justice John Roberts, Associate Justice Samuel Alito and Associate Justice Elena Kagan, (Standing down from left) Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett, Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch, Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Associate Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. (OLIVIER DOULIERY/AFP via Getty Images)
"I deliberation it would beryllium connected the circumstances, whether it was an authoritative act. If it were an authoritative act, again, helium would person to beryllium impeached," Sauer responded.
"What does that mean? Depend connected the circumstances? He was the president. He is the commandant successful chief. He talks to his generals each the time. And helium told the generals, 'I don't consciousness similar leaving office. I privation to signifier a coup.' Is that immune [from prosecution]?" Kagan pressed.
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Former President Donald Trump exits Trump Tower successful New York City, Monday, April 15, 2024. Jury enactment begins contiguous successful the alleged hush wealth proceedings successful Manhattan Criminal Court this morning. (Probe-Media for Fox News Digital)
Sauer responded it would "depend connected the circumstances of whether determination was an authoritative act" if the hypothetical president would beryllium immune from prosecution.
"That reply sounds to maine arsenic though it's like, 'Yeah, nether my trial it's an authoritative act.' But that definite sounds bad, doesn't it?" Kagan said.
"That's wherefore the framers person a full bid of structural checks that person successfully, for the past 234 years, prevented that precise benignant of utmost hypothetical. And that is the contented of the framers. What they viewed arsenic the hazard that needed to beryllium guarded against was not the conception that the president mightiness escape, you know, a transgression prosecution for something, you know, benignant of very, precise improbable successful these improbable scenarios," Sauer responded.
"The framers did not enactment an immunity clause into the Constitution. They knew however determination were immunity clauses successful immoderate authorities constitutions. They knew however to springiness legislative immunity. They didn't supply immunity to the president. And, you know, not truthful surprising. They were reacting against a monarch who claimed to beryllium supra the law. Wasn't the full constituent that the president was not a monarch and the president was not expected to beryllium supra the law," Kagan said.
Justice Elena Kagan joined the Supreme Court successful 2010 aft being nominated by erstwhile President Barack Obama. (Reuters/Jonathan Ernst)
The backmost and distant came arsenic the Supreme Court weighs whether Trump is immune from prosecution successful Special Counsel Jack Smith’s predetermination interference case. Smith’s lawsuit is presently connected intermission until the Supreme Court issues a ruling. The lawsuit charged Trump with conspiracy to defraud the United States; conspiracy to obstruct an authoritative proceeding; obstruction of and effort to obstruct an authoritative proceeding; and conspiracy against rights. The lawsuit stems from Jan. 6, 2021, erstwhile supporters of Trump breached the U.S. Capitol.
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WASHINGTON, DC - AUGUST 01: Special Counsel Jack Smith arrives to springiness remarks connected a precocious unsealed indictment including 4 felony counts against erstwhile U.S. President Donald Trump connected August 1, 2023 successful Washington, DC. (Drew Angerer/Getty Images)
Trump pleaded not blameworthy to each charges successful August, and called connected the Supreme Court to measurement whether a erstwhile president tin beryllium prosecuted for "official acts," arsenic the Trump ineligible squad argues.
The Supreme Court is expected to scope a solution connected whether Trump is immune from prosecution by mid-June.
Trump is besides portion of an ongoing proceedings successful New York City wherever helium is accused of 34 counts of falsifying concern records successful the archetypal degree. He pleaded not blameworthy to each charge. The proceedings prevented Trump from attending the Supreme Court proceeding Thursday.
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The NY v. Trump lawsuit focuses connected Trump’s erstwhile idiosyncratic lawyer Michael Cohen paying erstwhile pornographic histrion Stormy Daniels $130,000 to allegedly quiescent her claims of an alleged extramarital matter she had with the then-real property tycoon successful 2006. Trump has denied having an matter with Daniels.
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Prosecutors allege that the Trump Organization reimbursed Cohen, and fraudulently logged the payments arsenic ineligible expenses. Prosecutors are moving to beryllium that Trump falsified records with an intent to perpetrate oregon conceal a 2nd crime, which is simply a felony. Prosecutors this week said the 2nd transgression was a usurpation of a New York instrumentality called "conspiracy to promote oregon forestall election."
Fox News Digital’s Brooke Singman contributed to this report.
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